| Author |
Message |
MandM
Sex Maniac
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 197
Location: toronto
|
 Posted:
Jul 29, 2010 - 10:19 PM |
 
|
| Quote: |
They should have gone with the coalition.
|
Coalition governments do nothing but produce watered down legislation designed to please everybody. I can't think of one major piece of legislation in the history of our country that would have been passed by a coalition gov. Can you really picture Layton, Iggy, and the traitor hammering out a free trade agreement. I long for the good old days when you elected a party, let them work their mandate and held them accountable at the ballot box. If the conservatives do something completely outrageous, the liberals could always come in and reverse it like they did with the G.S.T.
See what I did there?  |
|
|
 
|
|
sweetorgiests
Slut Puppy
Joined: Apr 05, 2007
Posts: 990
Location: guelph
|
| Posted:
Jul 30, 2010 - 05:25 AM |
|
m&m ... in my drunken stupor ..I should have said minority, but the same can be said about coalition .... yes ... I did see how you point out Sheila's promise that JC snivelled out of and DM's full embracing.
For the record I have never opposed the GST ... replacing it was essential for the improvement in manufacturing competitiveness Canada enjoyed in the 90's.
I am opposed to what McGuinty has done since he has proven himself to be very slimey.
IMNSHO the gst should apply to everything .... consumption is consumption and the rate should be lowered. In addition the entire income tax and capital taxes should be simplified.
In addition having two education boards is redundant and unnecessary. Religious freedom is protected under the constitution and funding for such should not be included in state financed.
Further given the complete inability of any religion to prove the existence of a superior being, there should be no tax breaks provided in the pursuit of religious interests ... humanitarian efforts such as disaster relief, assisting the aged, disadvantaged, reducing child poverty etc should be rewarded.
Nonetheless, you will not see any of this from a majority, minority coalition government so burn your ballot and make a statement.
orgy |
|
|
|
|
|
couple4u
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 5318
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Jul 30, 2010 - 10:06 AM |
|
| Quote: | | In addition having two education boards is redundant and unnecessary. Religious freedom is protected under the constitution and funding for such should not be included in state financed |
So much for separation of church and state. If one of the other separate school boards decided to fight this as a case of bias towards the catholic board, they would have a case. A decision that never made sense.. |
|
|
|
|
couple4u
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 5318
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Jul 30, 2010 - 08:36 PM |
|
Orgy, when Lennon wrote this song, it was about how the establishment molds us from childhood into the mindless accepting adults, who settle for the mediocre. He also mocks the working class for romanticizing their roles in society.
I always thought the lyrics brilliant, and telling of how many are beaten by the system into apathy, still rings true today.
As soon as your born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fucking peasents as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me |
|
|
|
|
|
sweetorgiests
Slut Puppy
Joined: Apr 05, 2007
Posts: 990
Location: guelph
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 02:25 AM |
|
2for ... tis quite brilliant .... no wonder the thinking Lennon was assassinated ... he spoke the truth. Chapman probably moved into a country club under another name as opposed to prison.
orgy |
|
|
|
|
|
AJ_TO
Sex Maniac
Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 205
Location: Toronto
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 10:45 AM |
|
| sweetorgiests wrote: | Chapman probably moved into a country club under another name as opposed to prison.
orgy |
Chapman is still in Attica prison. He was denied parole once again. I think he should stay there for as long as Lennon remains dead and for as long as we remember. |
|
|
 |
|
DavidM
Verified Couple
Joined: Aug 09, 2003
Posts: 5438
Location: Mid-Town Toronto
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 03:17 PM |
|
This thread is once again off topic. So, to bring it back on track here is an excerpt from James Travers column in todays Toronto Star.
(the full story is here http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/step ... itics?bn=1 )
| Quote: | | For better or worse—and certainly to the qualified satisfaction of voters who share Harper’s brooding hostility to the Canada of Pierre Trudeau, Tommy Douglas and Joe Clark—this is becoming a different, sometimes difficult to recognize, place. |
And he ended the column with this
| Quote: | Harper bumps up against the low ceiling of support for a party that even after more than four years in power can only count on about one in three voters.
If public acceptance is the medium, then the message is unusually clear. A Prime Minister who has already beaten the odds in winning and maintaining power presses his luck when the ultimate Conservative purpose becomes too obvious for Canadians to stomach. |
Pease, let's find another leader who wants to rebuild the Canada that more than 2 out of 3 voters want. The Canada my mother brought me to at age 12 from a war torn Germany. It was a great and open and welcoming place.
That is my political rant of the day.
 |
_________________
If you think you can. . .  |
|
|
|
couple4u
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 5318
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 03:33 PM |
|
The thread is not off-topic at all David. The apathy and general malaise of the voting public, is very much a part of the way Canada is governed today.
The truth be told, Harper is governing this Country because there is no real alternative. The Liberals are in the shape they are after throwing Martin under the proverbial bus, then selecting leaders out of political correctness, appeasing Quebec, Soccer moms, and acting like a bunch of arm chair reactionary's trying to obtain a meaningful poll number.
Can't blame Harper for that! |
|
|
|
|
|
DavidM
Verified Couple
Joined: Aug 09, 2003
Posts: 5438
Location: Mid-Town Toronto
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 06:17 PM |
|
I can and do blame Harper for moving the country so far to the right of centre.
. . . And I hold the apathetic, fickle public responsible for allowing him to rule for now going on five long years in a minority regime.
The hidden agenda of the conservative/reform party is becoming more and more apparent to the voting public. In fact 2 of 3 people do not support the CONSERVATIVE party of Canada. . . So how long before we'll do to Harper what we did to Mulrooney.
When the people no longer support you, you better lie down. You're dead. That point is coming. |
_________________
If you think you can. . . |
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 08:23 PM |
|
David. Next election will likely be in 2 years or less. You will get your wish and Harper will be gone.
Finding a new PM that more than 2 out of 3 Canadians agree on will be difficult indeed. So many people with different demands from a government and most don't have a clue what each government is up to untill the election spin doctors tell them, LOL Thats a joke but the joke is on us.
Just on this thread alone we can't agree on what is good government. Most times when I am not too dissapoined with a government, there will be something they do to really piss me off, and that is a government that I like. No government can possibly please everyone or even always keep their loyal following happy with every decision they make. It is just too complex for that.
We have big business that has much different needs than small business and the middle class that has a whole set of needs of their own and then there are those at the bottom of the income bracket that are either unemployed or unemployable and they each have differents needs or requests from government. There are the liberal Canadians that want everything in the open and legalize weed and the religous fanatics that want to push us back into the dark ages again.
That is a tiny tip of what a new government will have to face. There are few thousand other controversial issues to deal with along with the finacial nightmare of running a country with over 30 million people and a huge multitude of cultural backgrounds.
Jim carry is a local boy from Burlington Ont. Elect Jim Carry for PM. We have done worse. |
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Jul 31, 2010 - 08:27 PM |
|
David. Next election will likely be in 2 years or less. You will get your wish and Harper will be gone.
Finding a new PM that more than 2 out of 3 Canadians agree on will be difficult indeed. So many people with different demands from a government and most don't have a clue how government works or what each government is up to untill the election spin doctors tell them, LOL Thats a joke but the joke is on us.
Just on this thread alone we can't agree on what is good government. Most times when I am not too dissapoined with a government, there will be something they do to really piss me off, and that is a government that I like. No government can possibly please everyone or even always keep their loyal following happy with every decision they make. It is just too complex for that. Ask Mr. Obama how that works.
We have big business that has much different needs than small business and the middle class that has a whole set of needs of their own and then there are those at the bottom of the income bracket that are either unemployed or unemployable and they each have differents needs or requests from government. There are the liberal Canadians that want everything in the open and legalize weed and the religous fanatics that want to push us back into the dark ages again. Throw in a few hundred special interest groups for entertainment.
That is a tiny tip of what a new government will have to face. There are few thousand other controversial issues to deal with along with the finacial nightmare of running a country with over 30 million people and a huge multitude of cultural backgrounds.
Jim carry is a local boy from Burlington Ont. Elect Jim Carry for PM. We have done worse. |
|
|
|
|
|
couple4u
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 5318
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Aug 31, 2010 - 02:51 PM |
|
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 01:07 AM |
|
We have never had a statesmen like Pierre before or since he was in office. He was a brilliant man with strong conviction of what he believed in. He definetly had more balls than any other Prime Minister and shared them with more attractive women than any other prime minister. He was smarter than Clinton about his privacy.
I am not a big fan of his all ideals and and he did many things I didn't agree with then or now. I did listen to him speak during his first election and watched him dive off the board into the pool at what was then a new Holiday Inn In Oakville on his election tour. He was more popular among the ladies then men and it was often said that the women's vote got him into office the first time.
I may not like what he did while in office but Pierre certainly did it with more class and guts then any other PM.
In the end he became very discouraged with politics. |
|
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 01:30 AM |
|
People are still thingking coalition??? If your party can't get elected by themselves then they don't deserve to be in power. If Canadians wanted any of them , they would have elected them as a party. To join forces to creat a coalition defeats the election process. That would put parties in power that were rejected as leaders in two consecutive elections. The people chose Harper two times in a row. How clear does it have to be that the other parties were rejected by the voting public.!!!!!To allow them to rule as a coalition makes a mockery of the election process and the will of the voting public. If they want to be in power in Canada, they should try presenting a leader and party platform that will get them elected for the job. So far they still haven't accoplished that after several years of trying. In the last election the Liberal's in Stoney Creek ran a convicted criminal and conman Larry Dianni??? WTF. What the hell were they thinking?? NDP got that seat. Harpo isn't the best PM but he was elected twice by the Canadian voters. I don't see anything in the other parties to date that makes me confident in any of them yet. Love him or love to hate him doesn't change the fact that he won two consecutive elections to be PM.
In less than two years Harper will be gone."??? Then what???One of the other stooges will win by default? Way too often we vote a party out and choose the lesser of evils instead of a voting a good party in. |
|
|
|
|
|
dasweets
Newbie
Joined: Aug 26, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Guelph
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 10:05 AM |
|
fb .. I can not agree with your interpretation of the system ... it is far too skewed by what Harper said.
The Canadian electorate system is designed to provide representation at the local level through a member of parliament. Each member of parliament is elected to represent the constituents interest. In order to enact legislation a majority of those MP's must vote the same. This results in party politics with leaders for whom you do not vote (unlike the US where you vote for the leader in addition to congress and the senate).
After an election the party with the most seats is asked if they can form a government and then must gain a majority of votes on matter of confidence to continue to govern. If they lose a vote of confidence the governor general will ask the official opposition (those with the second most seats) if they can form a government and hence the potential for a coalition exists. This can be officially or unofficially and has happened on numerous occasions when two or more parties have similar interests.
This approach is by design and allows government to function and decisions to be made even if there is no clear cut election winner, a coalition government is no more unethical or philisophically different then a minority government operating with the consent of other parties.
It was designed this way to give representation by population by giving a voice to all ridings.
IMO Harper prefers a dictatorship and in the case of the gun law registry it appears IGGY is whipping the liberal MPs to vote against the proposed scrapping of the gun registry. This IMO is anti-democratic since the MPs are not necessarily representing the wishes of its constituents.
IMO there are no good leadership candidates at this time. The process is better than in the US where government has been completely bought out by lobby groups. Paul Martin would be Canada's best possible leader followed by Bob Rae, and then perhaps Peter Mackay... of course if Joe Clark would re-emerge I would take him over Rae but not Martin.
We all have preferences, but the system is not ineffective and the minority/coalition approach is a better check and balance then allowing any leader who does not gain both the required number of seats and the highest popular vote from running wild.
orgy |
|
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 11:22 AM |
|
[quote="dasweets"]fb .. I can not agree with your interpretation of the system ... it is far too skewed by what Harper said.
The Canadian electorate system is designed to provide representation at the local level through a member of parliament. Each member of parliament is elected to represent the constituents interest. In order to enact legislation a majority of those MP's must vote the same. This results in party politics with leaders for whom you do not vote (unlike the US where you vote for the leader in addition to congress and the senate).??????
DaSweets.::::
That was the origional intention of our parlimentary system but that isn't what happens very often. Do you actully believe that party leaders allow your local politian to vote the wishes of their local constituents if they are in conflict with party policy?? Nothing could be farther from the truth. Have you never heard of "' Toe the party line.""
If your area representitive MP votes for the wishes of his local constituents (the people that elected him/ her to convey their wishes to Parliment. ) and those wishes are against party policy, he will probably get booted to the back benches as an inependant and no longer be a member of his party. Chritien was well known to immediatly boot anyone that dissageed with him to the back benches as independants. This policy leaves your local representitive in a quandry if his local constituents are very vocally against a particular piece of legislation tabled by his own party. Does he/she do their job and vote the wishes of his constituents as they swore to do, or cover their own ass and vote for the party position to keep their job even though it is in direct contradiction to the wishes of their constituents?? The majority opt to keep their jobs but a few have refused to follow a party policy that was in contradiction to their constituents and almost all have been booted from thier party as a result of their commitment to the people that elected them. Unfortunatly this policy still stands and most PM's including Harper will boot PM's from the party if they don't follow party policy and be damned what the PM's constituens want. It makes a mockery of real representaion in parliment by your local representative. |
|
|
|
|
|
MandM
Sex Maniac
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 197
Location: toronto
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 12:37 PM |
|
| Quote: |
Pierre certainly did it with more class and guts then any other PM
|
Mocking Queen Elizabeth by dancing behind her back like a baffoon, flipping the bird to the voting public... I'm not sure I would use the words class and Pierre in the same sentence.
Pierre spent his carreer pushing through legislation that people didn't want and forcing his cohorts to tow the party line. Why is it that he's considered a man of conviction yet when a conservative PM does the exact same thing he's called a dictator?
Quite frankly, I'd rather be beaten over the head with a bilingual road sign than to see this guy in power again. |
|
|
|
|
|
couple4u
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 5318
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 04:19 PM |
|
| Quote: | | Mocking Queen Elizabeth by dancing behind her back like a baffoon |
Jebus! That is one of the reasons I liked him! Anyone who mocks the Illuminati has something going on! |
|
|
|
|
|
dasweets
Newbie
Joined: Aug 26, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Guelph
|
| Posted:
Sep 01, 2010 - 08:40 PM |
|
fb .. i agree that practice does not match the theory ...The point I am making is that a minority government is an unofficial coalition government ... that is without the support officially or unofficially of other mps you cannot govern ... this is much different then having an ipso facto PM when there is no majority.
as for PET
If ever something deserved to be mocked it is the monarchy ... as official parasites of England I think they are respected by and treated far to well by those that were once colonies, populated for the sole purpose of exploiting the wealth of those lands.
Those who think of PET as a dictator should look at his record as PM in a minority situation, where reason over passion excelled. As for French language rights, official bi-lingualism was the only thing that kept Quebec as part of Canada ... the French were ket to the settlement of this country and until the Trudeau years had absolutely no rights to federal government services including the courts in English ... The french culture of those in Quebec has been nothing but beneficial to all Canadians and is a distinguishing characteristic from our war mongering neighbours to the south.
orgy |
|
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2010 - 08:20 AM |
|
MandM:: This is taken from a biography on Trudeau::Trudeau led Canada through some of its most tumultuous times and was often the centre of controversy. Known for his flamboyance, he sometimes wore sandals or a buckskin jacket in the House of Commons; dated celebrities; occasionally used obscenities to insult his opponents, and on May 7, 1977, did a pirouette behind the back of Queen Elizabeth II. "":Trudeau's down to earth lifestyle and public casual dress and his uncanny abilty to relate to anyone and speak comfortably without scripted speaches to anyone made him more exceptable and approachable to more people than the rigid business suits and rehearsed speaches and legal jagon used by most politicians of the day. Most politicians then had little use for hippies but Trudeau often dressed and acted like one. He was quickly embraced by the new young voters as someone they could relate to and understand.
Some of Trudeau's antics were absolutly about his distain for the stuffiness and conceit in the pompass ass parlimentary protocol. He often made jokes about the big ego's of government. He also publicly made fun of the wigs still worn in British courts and by some in British government when he was in England. . They are supposed to show some sort of authority and importance but it just looks damn silly. A bunch of adults playing dressup to make themselve feel important. Even today when I see Canadian judge in robes it simply reminds me of the arrogance and false self importance these people have. I think they look like idiots in their robes. The way our courts and governments are run today they should be honest and switch to clown costumes and Dunce hats.
He had no use for the pompass assed protocol and wasn't afaid to show it. Most people agreed with him on that.
Peirre was of French ancestry and had no respect or loyalty for the Britsh Monarchy and did not consider the monachy as head of Canada. Many French Canadians reject the monachy. His distain for the monarchy was never concealed and he knew he was on camera for the world to see when he mocked the Queen.
Trudea's arrogance toward public opinion would make Harper seem like a pushover.
Having said all that he is respected by many for his ability to get things done and his flamboant lifestyle made him the darling of the media in both political and entertainment media. No PM ever played to the press better than Pierre. I didn't like much of what he did but politics were never boring when Pierre was in office.
""'Quoted"""
Pierre spent his carreer pushing through legislation that people didn't want and forcing his cohorts to tow the party line. Why is it that he's considered a man of conviction yet when a conservative PM does the exact same thing he's called a dictator?
One PM being called a dictator and onother a man of conviction for doing the very same thing, is based entirely on weather you like that party or person. How they do it is more important then what they do for some and especially for the media. A good PM to some is a horrible dictator to others. I still think of Chritien during his second term in office as the worst dictator in recent politics but many here would disagree and have much respect for Chretien ( sorry Ruthy and David). lol. It is my persective and they have theirs. Neither is a right or a wrong but a government serves different needs and Chritien really pissed me off about as much as Harper and Bush were not the favorites af many here.
Hate to upset some people here but Tony Blair just released his book about his life in politics and stated that he considered George Bush to be among one of the most intelligent and infuential world leaders of our time. Blair stated that he always admired Bush's ability to cut through the crap and understand things and get quickly to the source of problems and act upon them quickly and intelligently. A view from another world leader. I know everyone one here are big Bush fans.!! lol
If Trudeau were still alive and mentally alert he could probably win this next election without even campaigning. Love him or hate him , he was one of Canad's most memorable Prime Ministers. |
Last edited by firebird on Sep 03, 2010 - 07:15 AM; edited 4 times in total |
|
|
|
|
Ruthy
Verified Couple
Joined: May 09, 2001
Posts: 4148
Location: Toronto
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2010 - 10:03 AM |
|
Great Golly. The Conservatives & Liberals are tied neck & neck in the latest polling. Please Iggy do not put your foot in your mouth. |
_________________
Stay Happy
Ruthy |
|
|
|
|
firebird
Insatiable
Joined: Dec 17, 2000
Posts: 2089
Location: oakville
|
| Posted:
Sep 02, 2010 - 02:12 PM |
|
No matter who wins the next election, little will change for the average person. Some will lose things they want and others will gain a few things but in the end the average state of Canada will not change a lot. New governments tend to steal good ideas from previous governments even if they condemed those same ideas when in opposition. Preston Manning lives on in many policies stollen by other parties. Poor Preston. A brilliant and compasionate Canadian that believed too much in people and aligned himself with the wrong people. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Userlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Sub-Forum
Maximize
